Rumsfeld:Deutschland und Frankreich sind ein Problem

[Bundeskanzler]

So ändern sich die Zeiten, gestern waren WIR noch isoliert, und nun sind die Engländer dran. Den Amis ist es ja eh wurscht...

Bushs treuester Knappe ist Tony Blair, der selbst den Einsatz von Atomwaffen im Irak nicht ausschließen will. Doch der britische Premier gerät immer stärker unter Druck: Die meisten seiner Wähler lehnen einen militärischen Alleingang gegen den Irak ab. Viele Briten verachten Bush, fürchten die Isolation innerhalb Europas.
(...)
Die Chancen, die Briten auf den Kriegspfad George W. Bushs zu locken, werden allerdings selbst von US-freundlichen Medien als sehr begrenzt eingeschätzt. "Der amerikanische Präsident ist hierzulande so unbeliebt", räumte der rechte "Daily Telegraph" ein, "dass er die 'Marke USA' beschädigt, sobald er nur seinen Mund aufmacht."
(...)
Quelle: SPIEGEL vom 23.01.2003

@Hunble
Even the British people are against the war and are afraid that Greatbritain gets isolated within Europe. Only Blair and some Ministers are propagating the American Way of war. In one of your postings you wrote that America doesn't want to use weapons of mass destructions. Why does Blair consider this? Is he mad? Maybe he ate too much beef of mad cows (together with Bush, Rice and Rumsfeld)?

 

[forcemagick]

Seriously, outside of the internet, I have never know anyone personally that has expressed the view that I have seen on this website.

Why is that?

Ok, my wife's sister earned her income by being a professional protester. It did not matter what the issue was, she was paid to stand outside a government building and protest it. For obvious reasons, her political views are not exactly highly respected.

I love to explore how other people think. That is why I have joined this website. These concepts are so outside of anything that I know, that it is like exploring another planet. Absolutely fascinating!

Once again, I do not know anyone in my personal life that has expressed simular views as I have read on this website.

welcome to our planet

but it is not true that this planet is only a german planet

many of the ideas we discuss here come from us autors...

there are many people like us in the usa to and i hope we grow everywhere on this planet so that this planet is not longer a foreign planet on planet earth

i think generally the us-media is more conform to the system..

well i guess.. surley....

perhaps i am wrong... but it seems so to me...

well however if we have not the same opinion i am glad to see that not all people from that republican forum are like thoose who kicked some of our users....

 

[Hunble]

In one of your postings you wrote that America doesn't want to use weapons of mass destructions. Why does Blair consider this? Is he mad? Maybe he ate too much beef of mad cows (together with Bush, Rice and Rumsfeld)?

North Korea would be a nuclear war.

For the people who ask why America is not attacking North Korea instead of Iraq, I have a very simple question:

What day and hour would you like America to win a war with North Korea?

-------------

On Iraq:

Iraq has been told in no uncertain terms: that any use of biological, chemical or nuclear weapons against American or British military or civilians will result in a nuclear attack upon Iraq.

And your question is?

 

[Bundeskanzler]

...That is why I have joined this website. These concepts are so outside of anything that I know, that it is like exploring another planet. Absolutely fascinating!

Once again, I do not know anyone in my personal life that has expressed simular views as I have read on this website.

This planet is called EARTH. You ALIEN are invited to explore and learn from us! And after you have become a wise man go back to your planet and tell your people what you have learned here and teach them how to see everything not only black and white but also to notice the grey colors...

 

[Agarthe]

I have nothing but respect for most of the people on this website. Our views may be different, but by talking, perhaps we may learn to understand each other.

I agree. Respect is a good catchword. Hunble, you might find it easier to understand some postings with the help of the following homepage providing an online translation function. Just type in the unknown term and click on "suchen".

http://dict.leo.org/?lang=de

 

[Bundeskanzler]

And your question is?

Only one question: What you wrote about weapons of mass destruction, is it really YOUR opinion?

Weapons of mass destruction have no valid military purpose and are only useful for the murder of civilians.

What day and hour would you like America to win a war with North Korea?

Don't make me laughing...

 

[Bundeskanzler]

Wo ist MAXIM eigentlich? Der muss sich hier doch jetzt wirklich wie zu Hause fühlen...

 

[dkR]

Da ist hier mal ein Diskussionsbereiter Ami der sogar weiß von was er redet und die Hälfte von euch putzt ihn wieder dermasen runter...

Dieser pure Antiamerikanismus ist ja wohl total fehl am Platz.
(Auf Bundeskanzler schiel)

Weapons of mass destruction have no valid military purpose and are only useful for the murder of civilians.

Why do the US have so large amounts of weapons of mass destruction?
Please not the story about "someone has to resarch cures against it" or something like this.

No, what I´m realy afraid of is the new order for nuclear weapons.

In other words, when the member nations of NATO approved the invocations of Article 5 of the charter, each nations entered into a state of war.

No, Article 5 says, the state of war can be called out. What to do is not written.

 

[Hunble]

well however if we have not the same opinion i am glad to see that not all people from that republican forum are like those who kicked some of our users....

Yes, the policy of FreeRepublic lately to kick people out is not something I support. As a member of that website, I have been kicked out at least 4 times over the last 5 years that I have been a member.

Yes, sometimes even I have to wonder why. Heck, once I was banned not for anything I posted, but simply because of the original source of the article.

This is simply wrong!

I found that website 5 years ago and found people that think exactly like myself and everyone else that I know. Watching the news media, you would never know it. Thankfully, we were able to compare notes, personally experiences and realized that the news media has been lying to us.

For those of you living in Germany, you should not be debating me, but asking some very serious questions:

Why are the people that you have learn to trust over the years lying to you? What is their motivation and profit?

It will take years for you to realize exactly what I am talking about. But as you learn, keep this in mind.

Iraq will be liberated and the people will establish their own form of government. For the first time in modern history, the citizens of Iraq will know freedom from fear.


For those that supported the Iraq government today, I will be rubbing your noses in your own puppy shit for months to come.

That is a promise!

 

[forcemagick]

Da ist hier mal ein Diskussionsbereiter Ami der sogar weiß von was er redet und die Hälfte von euch putzt ihn wieder dermasen runter...

Dieser pure Antiamerikanismus ist ja wohl total fehl am Platz.
(Auf Bundeskanzler schiel)
.

naja ich kann den bundeskanzler da schon verstehen .. stellenweise gibt unser freund halt wirklich nur us-propaganda von sich...

ich mein wahrscheinlich ist er ein ganz netter und irgendwo auch aufgeschlossener herr im besten alter....

sicherlich ist es ihm zugute zu halten, dass er sich der diskussion stellt...

naja... aber ehrlich gesagt mir fehlen zum teil auch die worte...bzw... mir gehen die tollsten sachen in der hose auf unter anderem taschenmesser in pikanter umgebung... brrr... da kann man sich was verschrecken kann ich dir sajen

 

[streicher]

When Islamic terrorists declared war upon America, they also declared war upon my wife and me personally. They have declared that they will do anything possible to murder both me and my wife.

There is a CIA-ISI-Taliban connection. Remember the words of O'Neill who expressed that oil-firms and the role of Saudi Arabia were hindering the investigation of the FBI. The pipeline in Herat is in function. The conflict of interest was concerning a midtermproblem, 9-11 has been a result of developments which took place before. Afghanistan regimes have been supported and somewhat installed to always be a potential danger and it was - being 'supported' by the Superpower. American people have enemies in their own lines, my friend. And do admit: there is no solution in Afghanistan. Even not in Cabul. The region remains in crisis. A war would easier endanger the people in the US than a peaceful solution. For midterm or longterm the people have to strengthened and to be politisiced - and better without any 'religion' in longterm. I don't fear God.

Streicher, perhaps you do not fully realize the message that you are expressing when you defend the Iraq government.

Absolute nonsense. Read my last post in the lounge: One of the subjects I study is international relations. Some of the keywords we deal with are democracy, trade, institutions, organizations (enhanced) security, human rights. In respect of geography we also talk about 'global players' which can be companies and others. International relations are full of contradictions. :->

I did a little research in the matter of armament of Iraq and the companies that supplied Iraq with technology and armament. In my opinion it diversifies the question of guilt and knowlegde. The question of armament is very much a result of trading interests. These traders - or somekind 'global players' could well be suppliers of contrahents or antagonists on the global chessboard (this word is actually a good and precise description). On manager-magazin.de the foreign companies were listed (maybe still are). The report shows
- 2 companies are from Sweden
- 3 from Spain
- 7 from Belgium
- 3 from The Netherlands
- 5 from Japan
- 6 from Russia/former Sovjetunion
- 17 (!) from Great Britain
- 7 from France
- 3 from China
- 24 (!) from the US
- the number of German companies vary between 80 and 98 (!!)

Some of the companies placed in a country are daughters by companies in other countries which seems especially to be the case for some German companies which are more or less conducted by companies in the US.

So the problem we have to face is that the fact of weaponry is a complex one. In my opinion to make this a territorial conflict would ignore the fact of weapon trade: these players would just go on with their trade. I count altogether 157 or 175 companies. In Germany we know about armament scandals (technology to India -> nuclear armament) and the involvement of politicians who will not name the people which know 'something' about, number accounts and so on... One question is therefor: who knew what? Who decided to trade with a state or companies of that very state which is not a democracy but a dictatorship and why? Is morality being put down in trade matters?

So one question for the future which we should ask in matters of war and peace: why should a conflict be territorial and armed (endangers the lifes of civilians and soldiers, etc.) whereas one of the main reasons of the conflict of interest is trade, in this case trade of arms?

(This is a proposal to think about in future in international relations or 'enhanced international relations'.)
Irak Krieg p2


I want to hear some arguments about that. I do not see that you answer in a construtive way. Tell me: who has supported Iraq? Who then is a potential danger to the civilians anywhere?

Actually, it does not matter what you think, but when you support people who absolutely want to murder my family, you have ALSO become my enemy.

It does well matter. And my interests do matter. One rule is: civilians shallt not be victims of war game players. I am on the side of the civilians who do not want war or repression and do not support it and work against it - wherever. And do notice: the list above does well speak against the monster Hussein and his regime, for they do trade with companies from listed above. But don't try to tell me that the governments where some people have worked in secret services do not kwow anything. They know about the trade of arms.

No Streicher, you and I will never share a beer together.

I prefer coffee and drink it with other people, no problem.

Anyone that supports an evil government what desires to murder my wife or me, IS MY ENEMY.

Your thing. Opinions differ - even in the US-American army. That's what I know. 8)

 

[Hunble]

Why do the US have so large amounts of weapons of mass destruction.

You know, perhaps you have me absolutely stumped.....

Perhaps the Soviet Union had something to do with America creating so many nuclear weapons? Darn, who would ever think that?

When Presidents George Bush and Vladimir Putin met at the ranch in Texas, they declared that keeping weapons of mass destruction out of terrorist hands would be "our highest priority."

That priority seemed to have lost its edge, though, by the recent summit in Moscow. Bush and Putin agreed to collectively take about 7,000 nuclear warheads off of ballistic missiles.

---------

Do you also realize that after WWII, the Americans captured German chemical bombs and shipped them to the U.S. for storage?

I was personally involved in 1979 when we moved those captured German chemical (VX nerve agent) bombs from Denver Colorado to Utah for destruction.

Today, Russia and the Unites States are actively destroying all of their chemical weapons.

----------

Biological?

Did you realize that President Nixon declared that all biological weapons would be destroyed in America and it is illegal for any American military or civilian organization to store or develop these weapons?

Shortly after President Nixon took office, he ordered a review of U.S. policy and programs regarding biological and chemical warfare.

On November 25, 1969, the President declared that the United States unilaterally renounced first use of lethal or incapacitating chemical agents and weapons and unconditionally renounced all methods of biological warfare.

Henceforth the U.S. biological program would be confined to research on strictly defined measures of defense, such as immunization.

The Department of Defense was ordered to draw up a plan for the disposal of existing stocks of biological agents and weapons.

On February 14, 1970, the White House announced extension of the ban to cover toxins (substances falling between biologicals and chemicals in that they act like chemicals but are ordinarily produced by biological or microbic processes).

-------------

You know, responding to these questions is almost funny!

 

[Bundeskanzler]

Da ist hier mal ein Diskussionsbereiter Ami der sogar weiß von was er redet und die Hälfte von euch putzt ihn wieder dermasen runter...

Dieser pure Antiamerikanismus ist ja wohl total fehl am Platz.
(Auf Bundeskanzler schiel)

Scheiße, was redest Du da vom Antiamerikanismus? Und Antisemit bin ich auch, weil ich Friedmann zum kotzen finde, oder was?

 

[Hunble]

Streicher:

I did not reply to your research since I simply did not know how to respond:

2 companies are from Sweden
- 3 from Spain
- 7 from Belgium
- 3 from The Netherlands
- 5 from Japan
- 6 from Russia/former Sovjetunion
- 17 (!) from Great Britain
- 7 from France
- 3 from China
- 24 (!) from the US
- the number of German companies vary between 80 and 98 (!!)


Even you pointed out that the majority of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has been aided by German companies. Where did you think they purchased these chemicals from?

I did not wish to respond, simply because it was rather embarrassing to the German population.

 

[hardcore]

hello hunble !
it is interesting to listen about an american point of view.

i understand that you feel angry about 9/11, if i take the fiction of a terroristic attack against a soccer-stadium in germany for example.
but i do not understand, why president bush and the people of america, take the right to decide, which country is allowed to have chemical weapons and which is not allowed !

i think that most europeans people are procured about the american forces. we are thinking about: what will happen, when the US decides that germany or perhaps france is a "terroristic state" ?
this is the question we are thinking about.

it was not saddam that attacked wtc, why do you want to "liberate" the people of irak ? liberate them from what ? from their lives ?
i don´t understand your opinion.
why didn´t you liberated the people of angola, tschetschenien, palestina.... ?

the americans don´t know exacxtly, what war means, when the war is in your homeland. you never had bombing runs on your towns like we had.
the european people knows it very good, and that´s the reason, why we don´t want war.
hollywood loves it, to make films about worldwar 2, and the germans are not much better in your latest films than in the older ones.
do you understand that we have problems about having war with another nations with our own soldiers ?
since 1945 we have problems with every war.

 

[dkR]

Da ist hier mal ein Diskussionsbereiter Ami der sogar weiß von was er redet und die Hälfte von euch putzt ihn wieder dermasen runter...

Dieser pure Antiamerikanismus ist ja wohl total fehl am Platz.
(Auf Bundeskanzler schiel)

Scheiße, was redest Du da vom Antiamerikanismus? Und Antisemit bin ich auch, weil ich Friedmann zum kotzen finde, oder was?

Ich mein halt nur.

This planet is called EARTH. You ALIEN are invited to explore and learn from us! And after you have become a wise man go back to your planet and tell your people what you have learned here and teach them how to see everything not only black and white but also to notice the grey colors...

Sowas is ja wohl hart an der Grenze zum persönlichen Angriff und was soll das ganze dann?
Wir wllen ja wohl das Niveau waren.
Aber eigentlich willich mal wieder garnix gesagt haben. Macht nur weiter, lasst euch nicht stören.

 

[DaMole]

what i´m thinking about the situation in irak, humble you talked about the usa try to do not harm the
civilians of irak? mh... if the words are true... the irak shops are selling weapons to all the civilians of irak to defend his self and defend there country. if this is true, this war will be very bloody! then i think there will be no irak anymore or not much, to destroy a whole country with the ppl in it... thats a thing i wouldn´t be proud of. only the oil where the americans are after. what will be the consequences of such an war? i think it will be a disaster after this war... ok to tell you my point of view... i´m neutral! i´m not with saddam and not with g.w bush! and i think many germans are thinking so too, we don´t like global administration and ppl where think they can do what they want! i ask myself, when to ppl understand that we are living one the same planet, sitting in the same boat??! i think the usa are walking in the wrong way, in a way of no reverse... sure you know much more than me about the situation i think, but i have are very bad feeling about this all! (ein krieg ist keinesfall gerechtfertigt, nicht einmal wenn die usa, massenvernichtungswaffen finden würden! solange sie keine finden, gibt es keinen anlass um ein land in schutt und asche zu verwandeln. man sollte sich mal gedanken machen, warum ein land mit allen mitteln ein anderes in seiner obhut haben will, dabei sollte man nicht nur oberflächlich denken, sondern das puzzle bis zum ende zusammensetzen!) can i ask you how old are you? older than me thats sure , pls dont missunderstand me, my english is little bad, and my knowledge is most limited on present. i only want to share information with us ppl, i think it can be helpfully to understand each other. i got a sister in chicago, but she was adopted as baby from americans, i send her some letters with the help of my bigger brother... but some years ago i lost the connection to her i only tell you this, to show you, that i´m not really against the americans, it makes me little sad, that i dont know what my sister is doing... ok i think thats enough for now...

@ alle anderen: gebt ihm mal ne chance u. schreibt ihn nicht gleich ab, ich sehe eine chance! mag sein das er die ein oder anderen propanganisten sätze rausschmeißt, aber dann müßt ma ihn halt mal irgendwie aufklären oder so u. ich denke wir sind alle aus demselben holz geschnitzt, ob man allerdings einen älteren noch zurechtweisen kann sei dahin gestellt, ich denke ich werds mal probieren...

 

[forcemagick]

das unterschreib ich jetzt mal...

( in der hoffnung, dass wir von hunble noch anderes zu hören bekommen als agiprop... das geht ja jetzt auch schon ein paar postings so )

 

[BigBang]

Hunble, sorry for getting off-topic, but I'm interested in what you know about the "mini-nukes" the us-government wanted to develop.
Are they ready for action?
If not, whats the current project-status?
Whats your point of view here?

 

[streicher]

Hello Hunble,

Even you pointed out that the majority of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has been aided by German companies. Where did you think they purchased these chemicals from?

That's a good point. It's a whole trade or a branch of economic system heading the wrong direction and feeding dangerous regions, crisis regions, totalistic regimes which proved to be threats for security on our planet. We got to deal with how these flows can be stopped. Otherwise history repeats itself.

I did not wish to respond, simply because it was rather embarrassing to the German population.

These companies do not represent the population of the countries where they are placed in. These companies play their one game pretty independently.

Greetings,
streicher